EGX 2017: Lorne Lanning Interview [Hosted by Caddicarus] Date: 4/10/2017 Description: Lorne Lanning’s interview with YouTuber Caddicarus at EGX 2017 proved to be most fruitful, as, for the first time in many years, we were offered a taste of the wider Oddworld lore.
Concerning Abe’s Exoddus: The ‘Bonus Game’ [5:45]
Exoddus was something that time, relationships, the marketplace, partners—it was something we did in 9 months. Abe’s Oddysee took us three and a half years. Exoddus was intended to be the second game of the Quintology. You know, time and circumstances shaped into something that wasn’t, which is why we called it a ‘bonus game’.
With the success of New ‘n’ Tasty, we asked the audience before that what game would you like us to do next if we were doing this. We didn’t think New ‘n’ Tasty would be as successful as it was [6:56] and we didn’t necessarily … But it did great. And it allowed us to up the budget so the audience came back and said: “We want to see Exoddus remade.” And we were like “if we’re going to do that what if we did the way it was originally intended”.
So the idea of Brew, the idea of what was happening around the brew, that wind up in Exoddus, except it got way watered-down. It was supposed to be something much more, we were planning to build a new engine and all this stuff. So that’s why we called it a ‘bonus game’ because it wasn’t what we intended it to be but the team did an amazing job by delivering it.
Concerning the Oddworld Quintology [7:52]
We said: “What if we could get back to what the original intent was with the Oddworld Quintology; really Abe’s primary story?” So Abe was this character who’s gonna drive [the story], he was the primary hero through the Quintology, but then we were like “oh, as we’re gonna add on his sidekicks, we’re going to feature them.” And that’s not necessarily the most wise thing to do.
We started this twenty-three years ago, we launched Abe twenty years ago. We’re gonna approach this in a more technologically agile way. We have some ideas; brew was at the core of it; brew was always supposed to be highly-flammable. I thought we could do it in 1998—thank god we didn’t try. I designed how it works back then, I just never had the chance to implement it. So it really felt like a highly volatile, flammable liquid.
So we said: “Okay, let’s start here, building on top of Unity, and we get to start where New ‘n’ Tasty left off, but we’re going to re-do a lot of the technology.” We didn’t have a whole staff who was trying to make art, or trying to do level designs ahead of where the code is. We said: “We really need to find the synergy of this and stay true to Abe, right?” Abe is really about followers, empathy, puzzles. So how do we do that but really turn the volume up to eleven on the genre? So I call it a platformer game and then push that dynamic too.
It’s a reset button on the story, but the story of Abe in Abe’s Oddysee and New ’n’ Tasty, that fable—it was really like a fable, a slave begins toppling a major system of oppression. We said: “Let’s keep the fable, but let’s get it running with 21st Century technology,” because that was on with where the [partner relationships were] for that point in time. Then we go forward and we go: “The rest was not.” So let’s use that opportunity to get back to what [the Quintology] was. And if we do it right, hopefully, the audience was with us.
Concerning Hand of Odd [11:06]
First, RTS was largely the same model as I perceived it as a genre, which was two opposing sides depleting an environment until there’s nothing left and whoever uses that environment in a weaponized way to beat the other wins in an apocalyptic landscape. “You won! … in an apocalyptic landscape.”
But I was like: “What if one side was harnessing the forces of nature the way Yoda would and the other side was doing the industrial model.” So one is growing, one is raping and harvesting. And the idea of Hand of Odd was that balance. So one was empowered not by chopping down trees but would use the power of the spiritual energy in trees [which would become] something you could harness, a power, and the other tribe is trying to chop it down. So you had this different dichotomy of conflict, introducing more opposing approaches to a single RTS playing field. So that was Hand of Odd.
One of the reasons it never happened, I remember because I was in a men’s room at LAX. And standing next to me was Bobby Kotick, the CEO of Activision. And I was like: “Oh, hey Bobby, long time no see”. He was like: “Oh hey, hey, what are you guys doing?” And I said: “You know, we’re about to do an RTS game”. He goes: “Don’t do it, there’s no market there anymore”. When he said that I just totally got terrified, because Bobby Kotick is no dummy, like that was before he was multi-billionaire. We started to get a little cold-feet about that idea if the head of a major publisher was going: “Look the genre is dying.” So it was really the men’s room visit that killed it for me.
Concerning Wildlife [13:27]
In the Oddworld universe, [there is more diversity in the breeds of wildlife just like the Glukkons and Mudokons]. In this title, you’re more focused on the conflict with the Industrials. You’re going to find more of the old world, of the real secrets of Oddworld in this game. But there will be fewer encounters with wildlife and stuff. This is more the birth of a revolution that finds a lost history.
Concerning Mudomo & Mudanchee Trials in Abe’s Exoddus [14:17]
We only had nine months to get [Abe’s Exoddus] done. [Mudomo and Mudanchee weren’t] in the original plan. It was like: “What do we do? We don’t have time to create new NPCs! Well, re-use Scrabs, re-use Paramites!” It’s practical stuff, man. Someone’s like: “That was a great idea!” And you’re like: “Not really, it was kind of, you know, we needed to fix the flat tyre and that was the only pump we had.” Really practical choices.
Concerning Soulstorm Plot [15:00]
We’re picking up not with the 301 possibilities of how many guys every different player saved. We’re assuming that you did a perfect run.
Concerning Soulstorm’s New Gameplay Mechanics [15:23]
Let’s say, in the past, the puzzles, even in New ‘n’ Tasty, Abe didn’t have an inventory system. So the puzzles were more like, you need this, to solve this, now. So you need to get this, to achieve that power now, because you’re going to use it here. But what that did is it made it very fixed and limited in your options.
All of those powers and all those abilities is something that should be available to the player: a) When they achieved it, and; b) When they choose to expend it. So the value of a certain power like the Shrykull is something that you can accumulate. It’s your choice when to use it. But we’ve created so many more abilities that there are just very few things where one solution is the way. As far as I’m aware, so far, there’s none of them.
We really wanted that flexibility of the player in more of what you would have expect in—this is not an RPG—but it’s more of what you would expect in an RPG, where you go through, you accumulate usages of power, potions, whatever it is, and then you execute them when you want. Maybe you make some bad choices, but it was all the player’s agency to make that decision. That’s where we wanted to get to: It’s all the player’s choice.
Concerning Abe’s Pony Tale [16:52]
It’s really technological resolution and budget, right? So when we did New ‘n’ Tasty, we didn’t really have the budget to go in and re-change all the databases, so we had the ability to take them up to a certain level where it made sense. So if you look at the cover of New ‘n’ Tasty, Abe’s ponytail was still like: “What is that? Kind of like a dirty sock.”
But Abe was always imagined as—it was talked about, you know, [Munch’s Oddysee] had Labor Eggs—[Mudokons] were descended from birds. We descended from monkeys, right; they descended from birds, so they still hatch. [The pony tail is made up of] feathers. It was always intended to be feathers because … feathers were tough. I mean we could have had a feather object instead, but it just ended up being like a limp sock and we stayed with it.
Concerning Mudokon Feathers [17:55]
If you keep a fish in a tank, he will only grow a certain size. But if you get him out of the tank back into the wild then, all of a sudden, he can become twenty-five-foot shark. The environment shapes your natural ability to bloom.
So the idea with the Mudokons was that they’ve been so, basically, enslaved and misinformed as to who they really are. And that’s part of the Soulstorm story, it’s re-learning who they really are. To me this is a parallel with humanity.
Concerning Abe’s Stitches & his Ability to Chant [18:22]
Abe has something special about him, which leads to why he has stitches, which leads to how empathetic he is. And in that empathy, he’s able to sort of embrace something that is part of their natural heritage and become something that the other guys aren’t necessarily encountering. And that empathy, in the beginning, is what led to him getting these stitches in the first place. They were put there to save his life, which is different from all the others because it seemed like a different problem. So the stitches are at the heart at Abe.
Concerning the Depth of the Oddworld Universe [19:10]
If you want to try and build a property that’s going to resonate with people as deeply as Game of Thrones does, then it has to have this depth that the audience has to feel like they can continually uncover it. But if they start pealing a few levels of the onion and that there’s nothing there, then it’s really hard to have it lasting; it’s really hard to get that really passionate fanbase. I knew that in the beginning.
I was really into population control, propaganda, misinformation, disinformation, how populations are controlled, how people are ignorant of that. And how the news and the television shows and the newspapers, they’re not telling you anything. I was interested in taking that, and I was like: “This is a deep passion of mine for many levels.” And I think it resonates with where the world is at today, not necessarily that it’s aware of it, but I’m trying to be a bit predictive. Like Abe was kind of like an original 99 percenter, right? When we released New ‘n’ Tasty, people are going “Whoa, twenty-years ago, the steam still holds up, more relevant today.” It wasn’t psychic; this is just well-researched.
If I’m going to engage in a property, I want to feel the richness to know that the creator put a lot more in it than I’m able to uncover. And if it’s in themes of what I’m interested in or get provoked by, then I’m going to have a deeper connection to it. That’s what I was trying to nail, people having a deeper connection to it.
You can tell when a creator gets bored. We see it in sequels and movies all the time. So if you don’t have a deep passion for doing it, you’re not going to be very glad in five years. The DNA nucleus of what it is has an infinite possibility to stretch out from because it’s actually deep and rich and based on something real.
Concerning Abe & Playstation [20:25]
It’s funny that people have this strong association with Abe and PlayStation. They often thought that Sony was really involved and the fact is Sony wasn’t. They were very generous, they put us on a disk for free in the beginning, a lot of people saw that, cause it went out to PlayStation owners. Some things like that happened, a demo went out. Things like that happened and so they were really generous but they weren’t giving us money. We didn’t have a real deal besides a license to do it.
Concerning the Humor in Soulstorm [22:38]
We said it will be a little dark. There has to be [some dark humor, too], and even light humor.
Concerning the Soulstorm Teaser Trailer [22:55]
You’ll learn later in the game [that] what you’ve seen in that trailer [are] snippets of an original business plan of the brew solution being marketed to get financing from upper-higher finance groups in the shadowy world of the pyramid [23:09]. It’s embedded with the ton of information to be decrypted.
Concerning Quarma in Soulstorm [23:12]
So what we always wanted to do, which was very difficult to try to achieve, is that Abe is aware of the presence of you, the guiding force over his life. Now, in this game—I mean, time and energy will shape what the final product it—but it was important to us that he reflected more of: “What is that force that’s guiding me? It’s like letting me get there, but is really doing with what’s in-sync with who I am? Or is it doing something opposite?” And then it would have some cascading effects, I would think, as that proceeds.
When we first made Abe get chopped up in the bad ending, there was so much opposition internally, in the company. Because they were like: “I played this whole game and if I play the game I want to win, I don’t want to be told that I killed the guy because I won!” And I was like: “It was how you won. You were an asshole, you deserved to have that happened, why don’t you try playing as a better person.” And they were like: “That’s ridiculous! People are going to hate that!” So there was all kinds of vehemence against that idea.
We were like: “Well, we want to enable that, but we want to have a greater sense of consequence, a greater impact on the psychology of the character.”
Concerning Abe and the Oddworld Social Pyramid [24:24]
So when people’s food prices change because of what Abe did, that’s where Abe is going to start being branded as a bad guy. And the propaganda will be shaped [against him].
Concerning the Guardian Angel [24:54]
Right now it’s [just a Playstation] theme.
What the Guardian originally was is something we never got to do, cause we never so much got into the Mudokon lifestyle. So that was who a Mudokon would be sent to see if they started to have moral problems at work. It was like a robot face analyzing psychologically what you need to get productive. Sometimes [saws and syringes are] motivating. He’d say: “Get an ‘A’ on your test or we’re going to pull some teeth.”
Concerning JAW [25:45]
It was a great relationship. Everyone on that team did a great job. But it was hell on me. It was strictly UK-based. It was very difficult. I got Bell’s Palsy at the end of New ‘n’ Tasty. First, my face on this side got paralyzed, a hundred percent. And, fortunately, I got that resolved, then this side went paralyzed. So, fortunately, I’ve regained some of my facial control, but that was because I ran myself too low, too hard, too long, and I’m not getting any younger, in case you didn’t notice.
We had to bring most of the development close to home. Health was a major concern. We felt great about JAW for this title, and that’s a nice thing to take away.
Concerning Unity [26:56]
Everything [has been updated] because this is physics-based rendering. The fire, even smoke trails, they’re dynamically lit.
I have to give Unity a lot of credit. I think it’s really robust, really well-engineered software at the core of it. That doesn’t mean you can buy it out of the box and make what we made, you have to put millions of dollars of code on top of it. But it doesn’t crash with what we’re pumping through it.
- For the sake of legibility, we have only transcribed Lorne Lanning’s responses to Caddicarus’ questions. We have also paraphrased when necessary—as noted by the presence of brackets.